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This is why people such as Sir James George Frazer ("My theory assumes the historical reality of Jesus of Nazareth" The biggest problem with talking about evidence for the historical existence of Jesus Christ is that there are two "historical" Jesus Christs forming the ends of a huge spectrum of hypothesis. The most common criteria for a "proper" Jesus myth theory is that Jesus was originally a celestial being (deity, archangel, angel, etc) who was put into a historical framework possibly using the exploits of real world would-be messiahs to provide details.

Touched on by Remsberg in 1909, Just as there is a huge spectrum regarding the historical Jesus, there is an equally large one regarding the Jesus myth theory, parts of which are really reductive historical theories such as is seen with G. The final position (often classified as Jesus myth theory) is the ahistorical theory where there is nothing to show that either a pre-existing celestial being or single individual is behind the story.

As a result nearly all presentations of evidence gravitate to the Triumphalist end of the spectrum: "Either side of the historicity debate will at times engage in a fallacy here, citing evidence supporting the reductive theory in defense of the triumphalist theory (as if that was valid), or citing the absurdity of the triumphalist theory as refuting the reductive theory (as if that were valid)".

So some basic criteria as to what a historical Jesus even is must be set down and for the sake of simplicity this article will use Carrier's criteria for a minimal historical Jesus with regards to the evidence: "But notice that now we don't even require that is considered essential in many church creeds.

So even if Jesus is a historical myth (i.e., was a flesh-and-blood man), you could have the issue of the Gospel narrative being essentially false and telling you nothing about the actual Jesus other than that he existed; as Robert Price puts it "For even if we trace Christianity back to Jesus ben Pandera or an Essene Teacher of Righteousness in the first century BCE, we still have a historical Jesus." The problem is that such a reductive historical Jesus is similar to Robin Hood or King Arthur, where the core person (if there ever was one to begin with) has been effectively lost, and potential candidates are presented as much as 200 years from when their stories traditionally take place.

100 CE); and what could be referred to as "the usual suspects", a lineup of writers generally consisting of Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger - and, on occasion, Thallus. This article is NOT about the Jesus myth theory or Christ myth theory but about the quality of the evidence presented regarding his existence (both for and against).

The debate will come up for context but this article is NOT on the debate.

In fact, as the Christ Myth article shows its very definition varies so wildly that some versions would be considered historical Jesus positions.

All unconsciously used the historical Jesus as a ventriloquist dummy.

Jesus must have taught the truth, and their own beliefs must have been true, so Jesus must have taught those beliefs."What one Jesus reconstruction leaves aside, the next one takes up and makes its cornerstone.

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